Thursday, April 26, 2007

Critical mass

Can a big group of amateurs outsmart a handful of experts? Dan Kaufman reports on the 'crowdsourcing' phenomenon.

If you loved Hardy Boy and Nancy Drew detective novels as a child then the Dutch police have the site for you. In an attempt to solve a murder case from 1995 they put up details of the investigation online (the English version is in the hope citizens will suggest new angles or ideas. The site allows anyone to examine photos of evidence for clues, study a map of the crime scene and even pore over illustrations of the victim's wounds in order to work out what kind of weapon could have inflicted them.

The police website is just one example of an online phenomenon called crowdsourcing, where companies and authorities ask the public to help with specific problems or tasks. A play on the word "outsourcing", the term was coined by Jeff Howe in an article he wrote in the June 2006 issue of Wired and since then it has become the latest buzzword - and the number of crowdsourcing applications keeps rising.

"A year ago I had to root around in every nook and cranny to dig up five or six examples [of crowdsourcing] but we're now tracking some 150 examples," Howe says.

Since a couple of years of blogging I have had an casual interest in how different organizations can come up with solutions and what solutions are best for which organization.

But it seems that they are expanding this idea to include just media advertising of events (ie posting crimes on YouTube), and citizen journalism.

Wednesday, April 25, 2007

Africa...Part II

Well let me lead off with information/links for Zimbabwe.
Zimbabwe, the land of dying children
Suffer the little children is a phrase never far from your mind in today’s Zimbabwe. The horde of painfully thin street children milling around you at traffic lights is almost the least of it: in a population now down to 11m or less there are an estimated 1.3m orphans.

Go to one of the overflowing cemeteries in Bulawayo or Beit Bridge and you are struck by the long lines of tiny graves for babies and toddlers. (From this Link)

Although I really could care less if Mugabe keeps his piece of paper or not. Not like it will help him get a job or something. But does provide some information about his past that should be of interest.
Let Mugabe keep honorary degrees

The next link from Human Rights Watch, I have not even skimmed it yet, but worthy of posting here.
“You Will Be Thoroughly Beaten”
The Brutal Suppression of Dissent in Zimbabwe

China and Zimbabwe cement ties
The government said the China-funded 424 tractors and 50 lorries would replace machinery destroyed during the seizure of white-owned farms to resettle landless blacks.

Agricultural production has fallen drastically in the country, largely due to lack of equipment, funding and technical expertise on the newly seized farms.

Zimbabwe to deregister NGOs
Zimbabwe has deregistered all non-governmental organisations (NGOs) and told them to submit new applications.

Ministers told state radio on Tuesday that this would allow the government to weed out organisations that were "agents of imperialism".

Harare was taking action against NGOs because some were using relief activities as a cover for a campaign to overthrow the government, Sikhanyiso Ndlovu, the minister of information and publicity, told the radio station.

"Pro-opposition and Western organisations masquerading as relief agencies continue to mushroom, and the government has annulled the registration of all NGOs in order to screen out agents of imperialism from organisations working to uplift the wellbeing of the poor," Ndlovu was quoted as saying.

Mugabe Gets Ready to Eat Cake While Fellow Zimbabweans Can't Find Bread on Shelves
No did not make that up, and sorry behind premium section.

Zimbabwe's tobacco farmers in price stand-off
ZIMBABWE'S annual opening of the tobacco auction floors hangs in the balance after Agriculture Minister Rugare Gumbo failed to get government approval for the new prices on Monday.

CIO at it again
Nope not a mistake, the Central Intelligence Organization (of Zimbabwe).

Lots of good information from this site also, just a preview.

Repression intensifies in Zimbabwe: ZINASU, PTUZ, WOZA and media crackdown
Meanwhile, Zimbabwean journalist Peter Moyo, a producer with South African TV state E-TV, was arrested in Mutare on 5 February, spending a night in police cells along with cameraman William Gumbo and his cousin Trymore Zvidzai. They were allegedly covering a story on illegal diamond mining and dealings in the area. Moyo and his team were charged with being unaccredited journalists - in Zimbabwe all journalists have to be accredited with the government.

Note link will go bad after a while.

The next three links are to the additional Military Command for the USA under the name AFRICOM.
Getting AFRICOM Right
The answer to the congressman (and others) is found in the much-maligned 2002 National Security Strategy of the United States of America which declared that "weak states…can pose a great danger to our national interests as strong states. Poverty does not make poor people into terrorists and murderers. Yet poverty, weak institutions, and corruption can make weak states vulnerable to terrorist networks and drug cartels within their borders." In Africa, the document went on to assert: "Promise and opportunity sit side by side with disease, war, and desperate poverty. This threatens both a core value of the United States – preserving human dignity – and our strategic priority – combating terror. American interests and American principles, therefore, lead in the same direction: we will work with others for an African continent that lives in liberty, peace, and growing prosperity."

US, Kenya discuss new military unit for Africa
"AFRICOM is intended to give the US a more focused approach to US security and developmental programs on the continent. At present, three different US regional command headquarters maintain relationships with countries in Africa," it said.

Globalism with Combat Boots

The last link (editorial) then leads us into a revoking attack on actions by the USA in Somalia. I disagree with nearly all of it and could easily take a couple of posts just to break it down, but to be balanced I include it here:
Where the Dead Rot in the Streets: Bush's Terror War in Somalia Rages On
Lots of links to news stories also in this piece.

But then why does all Geopolitical/Geo-strategic issues just revolve around the USA and the collective Navel gazing associated with that.
The first link is to a Freedomist blog.
A Moment of Opportunity: China, Darfur, and the 2008 Olympics
China, on a domestic and international cleaning binge, is seeking to cleanse its status and reputation by the time it begins hosting the Olympics in 2008 to appear as a developed nation in a first-world prom dress. While this may appear as a farcical whitewash operation by a totalitarian regime, it presents an opportunity for the international community to take concrete steps in resolving the Darfur crisis.

Again it has plenty of good links at the bottom of the post.

The below article could definitely learn a thing or two about political correctness.
China feels rising cost of interests in Africa
A deadly attack by rebels on a Chinese-run oil field in Ethiopia that left more than 70 dead is the latest example of the human and political cost of China's growing energy interests in Africa.

Tuesday's attack by rebel gunmen on the facility left 65 Ethiopians dead as well as nine workers from China, making it the deadliest in a recent spate of killings and kidnappings aimed at Chinese firms in Africa.

So reaction seems appropriate:
China deplores Ethiopia attack
China has condemned an attack on a Chinese oil company site in Ethiopia that killed 74 people, including nine Chinese.

So China gets a majority of oil produced on the east African Coast while the USA gets a majority produced on the West Coast. But we are trying to prevent genocide in all of Africa. If we were only concerned about "Our" oil then it seems we would have initiated the change in Military Commands.

And just so people know that I am not too serious of a guy then watch Qadhafi clip 1421 as he explains:
extinction of Jews, "Leeza" controlling them Arabs, Israetine and breaking ties with the ARabs/solidarity with African states...
And check out how in clip 1430 a crazy man calls Reagen crazy and "North Africa in its entirety is Shiite".
"We have turned towards peace, because America has turned toward peace with us."
What we gave with our right hand we took back with our left. (laughter, applause)

Links of interest:
Social Tolerance Allows Bonobos To Outperform Chimpanzees On A Cooperative Task

Tanzanian coffee farmers go green

Edit (4-26-07):
Resoultion to the Zimbabwe Crisis
Unless immediate measures are taken, Zimbabwe’s crisis will continue to deepen. Everyday, it becomes increasingly difficult for the majority of Zimbabweans to meet their families’ basic needs. Economists estimate that by June this year, 99% of the population will be living below the Poverty Datum Line (PDL). Clearly there is need for an urgent solution. Such a solution must come from the generality of Zimbabweans, and not simply from political parties. Similarly, while the support of Zimbabwe’s friends and neighbours is welcome, it is up to the people of Zimbabwe to determine their national destiny.

It is noteworthy that there is also talk of a Transitional Government for Zimbabwe. Everywhere else it seems assumes that it is a colonialization of the country. Because there has to be some authority during the transition phase.

Ethiopia Blames Eritrea for Attack
The rebel Ogaden National Liberation Front, which has been linked to Eritrea in the past, claimed responsibility for Tuesday's attack, which killed 65 Ethiopians and nine Chinese. At least six Chinese workers also were kidnapped, said Xu Shuang, general manager of Zhongyuan Petroleum Exploration Bureau's Ethiopia operation.

Since I followed Uganda for a while this is of interest to myself.
Uganda resumes talks with rebels

Captain Barigye Bakoku, the spokesman for the Ugandan delegation, said: "I did not see any tension and I hope we are going to move smoothly up to the end because I saw seriousness in both delegations.

"Tomorrow we are going to start on comprehensive solutions and we will move on to other items on the talks' agenda."

Martin Ojul, the head of the LRA delegation, said: "We are here to solve problems... Our expectation is things will go smoothly."


Tuesday, April 24, 2007


Hi Ren,
Nice to see you came out to play long enough to try and find people that have not heard your theories yet. I’m sorry your STILL pissed But I really don’t care about your feelings. As I am sure you care very little about mine. I am here to engage in a higher level of discussion then I have found on Thom’s. Although clearly you were registered first, I see no post to indicate any activity until after I started posting here. So who is Stalking Who? If Stalking is your word of choice.

I’m happy you have all my posts regarding you, For I have all your post regarding me and Log. You clearly were first to open the door on amateurish psychoanalyzing. Which from a legal stand point would be very hard for you to prove any semblance of a case, Other then YOU started it.

So Clearly I have evolved as a blogger since the “Great Purge”, You are still living in the past, brooding, complain and hating. So do what you want, Go back to ignoring me while WE all discuss things around you like civilized Adults. Or go away. There are thousands of blogs in the internet world. And we could give you some advice on some good places also. Derrick Jensen has some stiff authoritarian controls. As for me, I will continue to engage on topics I find interesting with little regard to who is doing the posting.

The School for Violence: A Conversation with Riane Eisler

Including terror and its uses, you mean.

Precisely. Terror and hate have a context. My research shows that underneath conventional classifications - religious versus secular, tribal versus industrial, right versus left, capitalist versus communist - are two underlying ways of structuring relations. They're actually two opposite poles, with a continuum in between. At one end of this continuum is the dominator society. Dominator societies have existed throughout history and have the same basic plan, whether it's Attila's Huns, Hitler's Germany or the Taliban's Afghanistan. These societies consist of rigid top-down rankings, of "superiors" over "inferiors," men over women, adults over children, "in-groups" over "out-groups" - rankings backed up by force and the threat of force in homes, in society, and between societies in chronic wars. Terror is built into the dominator system, and these bombings are the latest manifestation of that fact. Muslim fundamentalists are extremely dominator, in a bizarrely feudal way. It's as if they have one foot in the Middle Ages and another in our postmodern world with its powerful technologies of communication and destruction.

Do they think bin Laden cares if any Christian God is worshipped?

You see how the dominator mindset works. What they call the cure, I call a central problem - I, and every person who truly values freedom and democracy.

We were talking about the feudal family and terrorism.

Yes. Because in rigid dominator families, whether in the Muslim world or elsewhere, you learn from childhood that it's okay to impose your will by force on those weaker than you - women and children - that it's your God-given right to do so. And you learn never to express your anger or resentment against those who cause you pain, for fear of more pain. So you have a lot of stored rage that can be redirected toward "out-groups," in pogroms and lynchings and "holy wars."

But you can't think that family is the only factor here. You're no Freudian.

No, of course not. The family and society are profoundly interconnected. A mark of where a nation is on the dominator/partnership scale is how it treats women and children. Even if your family is less authoritarian, in a Muslim fundamentalist context, you still live in a culture where, for example, women get acid thrown in their face because they aren't wearing a burka, or get killed by members of their own family because they exhibit sexual independence. You live in a culture that worships strong-arm rule and male violence.

I've never heard this argument before. There are real grievances about oil, territory and multinational corporations, but you think the hate and violence mask another agenda.

I do. Where dictators or repressive mullahs rule, they cultivate hatred of the U.S., and the West in general, for two reasons. One is fear of our cultural influence - freedom for women, the undermining of traditional authority, and Western democracy, as imperfect as it is. They see the threat this poses to their domination, and to a system based on rigid rankings. The other reason is that fanning hatred against the West deflects anger and rebellion from themselves. That keeps the people from turning against the elites, who benefit enormously from their ties to the West, while few if any of these benefits go to the average Arab.

So what's your solution to terrorism? How do we fight it?

There's a short-term strategy and a long-term strategy - and they have to be simultaneous. In the short term, I'm afraid that military response against terrorist bases in nations that fund and support terrorism is necessary.

You've shocked me. The New Age community, the Dalai Lama, are calling for peace and love. I associate you with them philosophically.

The pure "peace and love" response is the flip side of the "kill and hate" response. Neither is realistic, and both ignore the psychosocial dynamics of terrorism we've been talking about. Unfortunately, failure to respond will encourage more terrorism. In the dominator mind, there are only those who dominate and those who are dominated. Nonviolence is equated with women, with what's despised, what's controlled and is legitimately, and easily, terrorized into submission.

But violence only breeds violence, you said it yourself.

If you've got a psychopath lunging at you with a knife, that's not the time to talk about peace and love. It's the time to defend yourself to save your life. The time to talk about peace and love, and to put them into action, is before that person becomes a psychopath. If we're to effectively address the festering problems that breed terrorism, we have to deal with the foundations of violence. We have to think of the long term. Any war on terrorism is doomed to fail, just like the war on drugs, unless we address the deepest historical, cultural, social, economic, political and psychic forces that produce terrorism. This is urgent in our high-technology age.


Saturday, April 21, 2007

737 U.S. Military Bases = Global Empire

The title link is a post from European Tribune that got me to thinking and looking into the supposed 750 bases around the world. This post will not cover this issue in depth enough to break down this number but will try to address how Chalmers Johnson thinks about these concepts.
It's not easy to assess the size or exact value of our empire of bases. Official records on these subjects are misleading, although instructive. According to the Defense Department's annual "Base Structure Report" for fiscal year 2003, which itemizes foreign and domestic U.S. military real estate, the Pentagon currently owns or rents 702 overseas bases in about 130 countries and HAS another 6,000 bases in the United States and its territories. Pentagon bureaucrats calculate that it would require at least $113.2 billion to replace just the foreign bases -- surely far too low a figure but still larger than the gross domestic product of most countries -- and an estimated $591,519.8 million to replace all of them. The military high command deploys to our overseas bases some 253,288 uniformed personnel, plus an equal number of dependents and Department of Defense civilian officials, and employs an additional 44,446 locally hired foreigners. The Pentagon claims that these bases contain 44,870 barracks, hangars, hospitals, and other buildings, which it owns, and that it leases 4,844 more. America's Empire of Bases

So there is 702 bases but no knowledge of what they signify, but note that it says owns or rents the bases. Why are we concerned about replacing them? I mean if we are to reduce our penetration and presence then this should be counted as assets to be sold for a profit. Note this was dated as January 2004 and then in February 2007:
It is not easy, however, to assess the size or exact value of our empire of bases. Official records available to the public on these subjects are misleading, although instructive. According to the Defense Department's annual inventories from 2002 to 2005 of real property it owns around the world, the Base Structure Report, there has been an immense churning in the numbers of installations.

The total of America's military bases in other people's countries in 2005, according to official sources, was 737. Reflecting massive deployments to Iraq and the pursuit of President Bush's strategy of preemptive war, the trend line for numbers of overseas bases continues to go up. 737 U.S. Military Bases = Global Empire

Now the numbers have gone up but the USA now "owns" them all? The question does arise whether the bases in Iraq are permanent or not.

Going back to that 6000 number of bases in the USA mentioned earlier, we can hardly see over 100 bases per State at List of United States military bases. So it looks like to make that 6000 number you need to count all pieces of property and not actual bases, and obviously this number includes all: Barracks, Camps, Facilities, Fields, Forts, Points, Ports, Posts, Stations or any old outhouse that the military either owns or leases. So if number of bases is grossly exaggerated in regard to domestic bases, then what says that he has not grossly overestimated foreign bases?
For Okinawa, the southernmost island of Japan, which has been an American military colony for the past 58 years, the report deceptively lists only one Marine base, Camp Butler, when in fact Okinawa "hosts" ten Marine Corps bases, including Marine Corps Air Station Futenma occupying 1,186 acres in the center of that modest-sized island's second largest city. (Manhattan's Central Park, by contrast, is only 843 acres.) The Pentagon similarly fails to note all of the $5-billion-worth of military and espionage installations in Britain, which have long been conveniently disguised as Royal Air Force bases. If there were an honest count, the actual size of our military empire would probably top 1,000 different bases in other people's countries, but no one -- possibly not even the Pentagon -- knows the exact number for sure, although it has been distinctly on the rise in recent years.

Yes, so Johnson brings up Japan as under counting bases. Japan has stationed there 40,045 troops according to US bases around the world. But taking the average base holding a population of around 5,000 (average of McChord and Vandenberg, then we only have room for 8 bases for one of the USAs largest deployments by a nation.
With more than 2,500,000 U.S. personnel serving across the planet and military bases spread across each continent, it's time to face up to the fact that our American democracy has spawned a global empire.

Well we can already see that he is lying. Serving means that they are actively on duty but in reality there is 1,426,713 active members and 1,259,000 personnel in the seven reserve components which should make the total as 2,685,713 (from US Armed Forces).
Though this may sound plausible enough, in basing terms it opens up a vast landscape of diplomatic and bureaucratic minefields that Rumsfeld's militarists surely underestimated. In order to expand into new areas, the Departments of State and Defense must negotiate with the host countries such things as Status of Forces Agreements, or SOFAs, which are discussed in detail in the next chapter. In addition, they must conclude many other required protocols, such as access rights for our aircraft and ships into foreign territory and airspace, and Article 98 Agreements. The latter refer to article 98 of the International Criminal Court's Rome Statute, which allows countries to exempt U.S. citizens on their territory from the ICC's jurisdiction.

Such immunity agreements were congressionally mandated by the American Service-Members' Protection Act of 2002, even though the European Union holds that they are illegal. Still other necessary accords are acquisitions and cross-servicing agreements or ACSAs, which concern the supply and storage of jet fuel, ammunition, and so forth; terms of leases on real property; levels of bilateral political and economic aid to the United States (so-called host-nation support); training and exercise arrangements (Are night landings allowed? Live firing drills?); and environmental pollution liabilities.

OK sounds reasonable. So is he counting all these SOFAs, Article 98 Agreements, and ACSAs as "bases" or are they just nothing more than storage facilities or facilities that facilitate deployment but not actually anything of substance as in a "base".

excerpted from the book: The Sorrows of Empire

Tuesday, April 17, 2007


Now that I have been visiting European Tribune and have enjoyed my time here, I thought I would introduce myself and my friend Loganthor.

We met at Thom Hartmann's Forum. As you can see from my posts and diary I have a strong interest in economics, especially in developing economies and international trade.

Loganthor tends to be more interested in the courts and laws (UET) as well the Israeli/Palestinian/Lebanon/ME conflicts.

While we both tend to be conservative in our views, we will look at many points of view including experimenting with presenting the opposite of our normal views. We also do not like or identify with some of the labels to identify conservatives like Neoconservative, Neoliberalism etc. I tend to be more libertarian but reject isolationism of the USA by all sides of the debate.

We also are willing to study the issue in depth, that we find lacking in Thom's Forum as well as other forums and boards. Honestly I am not sure if this format is best for what I am looking for but may have the most informed and educated as I have seen. On Thoms some threads can get as many as 3783 posts (Abortion) or 1000 posts and run more than a year.

Monday, April 09, 2007

Africa...Part I

I have been following the developments of Africa at Thom's Forum and thus I thought I would create a history of some of the links of interest I found-and with some of my irreverent comments. This will be in the order of most recent posts first...
Unknown source.
It goes to a very nice article that confirms most everything I have read over the last two years.:
Zimbabwe, the land of dying children-Times Online
Lastly, Human Rights Watch has some reports located at:
“You Will Be Thoroughly Beaten”
The Brutal Suppression of Dissent in Zimbabwe
Posted 08 April 2007 11:12

Sorry, more bad news:
Zimbabwe State Journalist Killed Over The Truth
Be sure to watch Video of BBC news.

Mugabe critics 'injured in custody'

And the BEAT goes on...
Or is that beating.

My boss had a saying over his door:
"The beatings will continue,
Until morale improves."

Must be Mugabe's philosophy also.
Mugabe acts against wage strike
The Zimbabwean president has threatened tougher measures against opponents [AFP”>

Yes, a time to celebrate. I wonder what else he has planned. Unleashing his secret Ninja army on the opponents?
Claiming that the strike has flopped, Zimbabwe state media pressed on with a propaganda blitz on Wednesday, suggesting that workers had defied the unions because they did not support their "Western and imperialistic agenda".

Well I don't know but it looks like the Mugabe Socialist Agenda did not do so well. Maybe it looks like a time for some Western Imperialism (just joking).

Yes, our king of the losers has spoken again:
Mugabe: Tsvangirai deserved beating

'No pressure' on Mugabe at summitPosted 29 March 2007 13:23

Zimbabwe police arrest Tsvangirai
But for some good propaganda check out:

Shhhh, don't tell anyone about this:
Catholic Archbishop Pius Ncube Urges Zimbabweans To Topple Mugabe
Damn those imperialist swines!
What right does a religious leader have to ask for the removal of a government leader?

I wonder if any of the Geopolitical Wonks will look into this.
Angola sends 2500 'ninjas' to Zimbabwe
Well the USA is not involved and no Mercenaries was hurt in the production of this article, so I will not count on any of our great advisers to mention this at all.

Mugabe associate defies EU travel ban
U.S. envoy: Zimbabwe at tipping point

Zimbabwe - CIO kidnap Gift Tandare’s body from funeral parlour

Well, you guys may not guess who I nominate for Worst Person in the world but here is a hint:
Zimbabwe says food crisis worsening
He also said that many growers of maize, the country's food staple - the price of which is capped by the government - had instead planted crops with no price controls.

Maize is sold only to a state grain agency, which distributes it to millers.
Zimbabwe is struggling with an economic crisis marked by shortages of food, fuel and foreign currency, the world's highest inflation at above 1,700 per cent, soaring unemployment and increasing poverty.

Once a leading agricultural exporter in southern Africa, Zimbabwe has relied on food imports since 2001, when Robert Mugabe, the president, stepped up a programme to seize white commercial farms and redistribute them to blacks.

And this is inconceivable:
The International Monetary Fund estimates that inflation in Zimbabwe will top 5,000 per cent by the end of the year.

More nice words out of Mugabe:
Robert Mugabe, the president of Zimbabwe, has told critics of his government to "go hang" themselves in his first response to the arrest and assault of opposition chief Morgan Tsvangirai.

I am not holding my breath for him being the "Worst Person in the World" though.
Mugabe: Critics can go hang
Tanzania, along with Namibia and Lesotho, is charged with dealing with the Zimbabwe crisis within the Southern African Development Community (SADC), a 14-nation regional bloc promoting development and democracy in the region.

Yes a little dramatic title link but see for yourself.
Zimbabwe Now: Dictatorship, Oppression and a Diet of Rats
Be sure to check out the report (video) from Dan Rather.

That would have been the time I would have left like that one family.

Well, what do you think are the chances that "Countdown" will have Mugabe as the "Worst person in the World"?
Mugabe opponents 'will pay a price'

Honestly, though I am not holding my breath.

Mugabe, 83, and in power since independence in 1980, dismisses the MDC as a puppet of Zimbabwe's former colonial master, Britain.

Zimbabwe opposition leader beaten
Yes, always easier to blame someone else for your own shortcomings.

I hope everyone gets to see the video. And be sure to check out the other posts on the blog.
Undercover ITV News report from Harare (on YouTube)

John Ampan's Four-Year Journey from Ghana to Europe
Editor's Note: This is the first installment of a multi-part series.

Should be an interesting series.
For John Ekow Ampan, Africa was his home throughout his journey. Then he lost his security -- his friends, his customers, his language and his laugh. He wanted to become a European. Today he dresses like a European, works like a European and buys European TVs and washing machines.

"But I'll never be one," he says.

Mugabe's guards in open rebellion
We can only pray that the king of losers is forced down and someone with a brain will take over.Posted 07 February 2007 23:31

I think this is enough for now, so not to bore too many readers.


Friday, April 06, 2007

Derrick Jensen/Anarchist forum or just Authoritarianism run Amok

Hi Terry, GH, Aric,

I would like to inform you that this guy and his mate "Loganthor" (who also just signed up) are trollish stalkers and much more than that assholes.
They are definitely not here because they are interested in Derrick's works and/or bringing down civilization.
I'm telling you this from experience.

Thank you,

I can wholeheartedly confirm that. These boys are not to be trusted.

Here's the scoop:

In fact, I left Hartmann's because of consitent trollish behaviour and genral abusive conduct by Rutherford and Loganthor, and they have kept following me / us (Andger and me) around. I would be the 'friend' that 'highly recommended' this place to Ronnie. Humor, you see.

Ronald Rutherford
In a way, I am sorry that my friends feel this way. For it was them that told me about this place.



I wasn't planning on coming back, But Ron told me that you two were going to Vouch for me. Boy Egg on my face.

Hi andger long time no see. probably because your still banned

To be fair, We all were banned from Thom's board. However those two are still banned. I am not. I have learnt valuable lessons from that, They have not. I was honest when I said Adversary, They are rarely honest. Mostly angry that they could never beat me in a discussion with out flinging wonderful colourful words and start incredibly huge flame wars, that ultimately brought Thom's Board to it's knees. They have issues, along with that debunked site of theirs NOS. I have offered my hand in peace several times only to have a continuation of the fight they could never finish. Impotent? Incompetent? Well that is for their own journey of self discovery. I'm too tired to seek peace with them anymore. I came here because Miles dared me come by. Probably so he can do this very thing. A sign of a true spineless coward. (I don't think God going to talk to you anymore miles)

Don't worry, I wont be back. Something about Anarcho-primitivist makes my head swim.

I REALLY wish this could have gone differently. It seems I am the only one capable of growing. Have fun wallowing in your pool of despair. LOL

Then Loganthor emailed this to Bill:
I would like to take this time to offically revoke my desire to help Miles return. That little bitch set me up. He told me if I was interested a conversation with him to join the Derrick Jensen fourm. I took it as a peace offer of sorts. this is what happened. I finally got to unload on him and not on Thom's. Derrick Jensen, Talk about athoritarian forum. WOW he's an anarcho-primivist. Talk about the most hypocritical site in existence.

PS: I guess someone did not like my title. As in:
There are four typos in your title. Can you find them?

Derrick Jensen/Anarchist forrum or just Authortarinaism run Amoke

Well in my defense, I was using a new add-on to Firefox and I can not see if I spelled the words right. This was just a cut and post one.
So I found 3 spelling mistakes, did not see any other problem. So sue me.
Thanks for your attention to detail.